Comments on: Knowing when to fold ‘em http://grace-ed.org/blog/archives/323 Christian Education at its best! Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:33:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Charles Chandler http://grace-ed.org/blog/archives/323#comment-93 Charles Chandler Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:59:45 +0000 http://grace-ed.org/blog/archives/323#comment-93 A good article. Thanks. A "second chair" staff minister's job is usually no more secure than his or her relationship to the pastor. And even then if the pastor has no "back bone" or is unwilling to risk anything, the staff person is very vulnerable. I served as an associate pastor for three years early in my ministry. It was an excellent learning opportunity. I had a good pastor to work with, however, I also keep in mind that I was the associate and he was the pastor. Second chair staff are always vulnerable when the pastor leaves. Second chair staff usually go to a church to work with a pastor. When that pastor leaves, seldom is the second chair staff included to any significant degree in the selection of a new pastor. The person chosen may or may not be the kind of person or leader that the second chair staff person would have chosen to work with. And life is too short to spend your time working with someone who does not want to work with you or whom you do not want to work with. So, I developed a theory that I think I would follow if I was in that type situation. I think I would go to the "powers that be" and explain that during the interim I would probably have more opportunities to move than at any other time. But I also realize that the church needs leadership more during that time than they would if they had a pastor. I think I would state that I could start looking for another position or I would be willing to stay and help provide leadership during the interim. However, if I stayed I would want assurance that when a new pastor is called that if he/she did not want to work with me or if I realized I did not feel I could work with the new pastor, I would be assured of a year to find something else or if the pastor wanted me to resign immediately to make room for someone of his choosing, that I would be paid for one year while searching for a position. And I would want the agreement in writing and signed by whoever had the authority to make that kind of decision. I did not have an opportunity to put the theory in to practice since I only served in a second chair position once and the pastor remained until his retirement 15-20 years later. Just a thought. I would be interested in your response. We are having an increasing number of retreat participants who have been pushed out by senior pastors. Charles Chandler Executive Director <a href="http://www.mtmfoundation.org/" rel="nofollow">Ministering to Ministers Foundation</a> A good article. Thanks. A “second chair” staff minister’s job is usually no more secure than his or her relationship to the pastor. And even then if the pastor has no “back bone” or is unwilling to risk anything, the staff person is very vulnerable. I served as an associate pastor for three years early in my ministry. It was an excellent learning opportunity. I had a good pastor to work with, however, I also keep in mind that I was the associate and he was the pastor.

Second chair staff are always vulnerable when the pastor leaves. Second chair staff usually go to a church to work with a pastor. When that pastor leaves, seldom is the second chair staff included to any significant degree in the selection of a new pastor. The person chosen may or may not be the kind of person or leader that the second chair staff person would have chosen to work with. And life is too short to spend your time working with someone who does not want to work with you or whom you do not want to work with. So, I developed a theory that I think I would follow if I was in that type situation.

I think I would go to the “powers that be” and explain that during the interim I would probably have more opportunities to move than at any other time. But I also realize that the church needs leadership more during that time than they would if they had a pastor. I think I would state that I could start looking for another position or I would be willing to stay and help provide leadership during the interim. However, if I stayed I would want assurance that when a new pastor is called that if he/she did not want to work with me or if I realized I did not feel I could work with the new pastor, I would be assured of a year to find something else or if the pastor wanted me to resign immediately to make room for someone of his choosing, that I would be paid for one year while searching for a position. And I would want the agreement in writing and signed by whoever had the authority to make that kind of decision. I did not have an opportunity to put the theory in to practice since I only served in a second chair position once and the pastor remained until his retirement 15-20 years later. Just a thought. I would be interested in your response. We are having an increasing number of retreat participants who have been pushed out by senior pastors.

Charles Chandler
Executive Director
Ministering to Ministers Foundation

]]> By: Israel Galindo http://grace-ed.org/blog/archives/323#comment-92 Israel Galindo Thu, 14 Jun 2007 20:31:10 +0000 http://grace-ed.org/blog/archives/323#comment-92 Thanks, Joel. Yes, achieving one's level of comfort in a context that cannot provide additonal challenges for professional and personal growth or development is a good one to add to the list. I suppose discerning the point at which we arrive at that state is the challenge. Most of us prefer comfort over challenge, and yet, challenge, as you suggest, is what facilitates growth. When does competence at what we do reflect the extent to which we merely are stuck in a rut? Thanks, Joel. Yes, achieving one’s level of comfort in a context that cannot provide additonal challenges for professional and personal growth or development is a good one to add to the list. I suppose discerning the point at which we arrive at that state is the challenge. Most of us prefer comfort over challenge, and yet, challenge, as you suggest, is what facilitates growth.

When does competence at what we do reflect the extent to which we merely are stuck in a rut?

]]> By: Joel Alvis http://grace-ed.org/blog/archives/323#comment-90 Joel Alvis Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:09:17 +0000 http://grace-ed.org/blog/archives/323#comment-90 Well said, Israel! I'd also add that there is another way to approach the second chair time to leave question: are you too comfortable? It was my experience as second chair that things got too comfortable - instead of anxiety presenting as the coercion you describe above, it manifested as an unnatural easy goingness. Lots of CYA all around which was reflected back as "comptence." No doubt it was also part of my own immaturity at the time that mixed with others who abhored conflict. Did someone once tell me that one's ability to move toward the differentiation of self in the family of origin carried over to other systems one is involved with? Having now served as an interim pastor for several years in a first chair place, it is good to know that there are times to renegotiate the next steps. This applies to church staff of all levels. In a "call" system one is not told how long your "contract" is - but at some point it will be necessary for all of us to leave. As a former interim colleague once said: We are all interims. Well said, Israel!

I’d also add that there is another way to approach the second chair time to leave question: are you too comfortable? It was my experience as second chair that things got too comfortable - instead of anxiety presenting as the coercion you describe above, it manifested as an unnatural easy goingness. Lots of CYA all around which was reflected back as “comptence.” No doubt it was also part of my own immaturity at the time that mixed with others who abhored conflict. Did someone once tell me that one’s ability to move toward the differentiation of self in the family of origin carried over to other systems one is involved with?

Having now served as an interim pastor for several years in a first chair place, it is good to know that there are times to renegotiate the next steps. This applies to church staff of all levels. In a “call” system one is not told how long your “contract” is - but at some point it will be necessary for all of us to leave. As a former interim colleague once said: We are all interims.

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